Re: New federal benefits legislation for 2010? --Please use this thread for all discussion

[Hoppy]

Try going this route Hoppy. When you get to the site,click on the VIEW ALL ACTIONS button and scroll a bit. When you get to the new page,click on MOST RECENT. Its on the second page,second petition from the top.


[url=http://www.change.org/

http://www.change.org/[/quote[/url]]

Got it! Thanks, Gonzo!

[Hoppy]

Ok, I know you're all going to laugh at how far out of the loop I am, but why do they call us '99ers'?? Anybody?

[SaraJ]

Ok, I know you're all going to laugh at how far out of the loop I am, but why do they call us '99ers'?? Anybody?

Come on Hoppy! Because most of us have received or will receive 99 weeks of unemployment benefits once we're through tier 4! My tier 4 ends in a couple of weeks & that's it for a lot of us unless our wonderful politicians give us a tier 5.

[Hoppy]

Ok, I know you're all going to laugh at how far out of the loop I am, but why do they call us '99ers'?? Anybody?

Come on Hoppy! Because most of us have received or will receive 99 weeks of unemployment benefits once we're through tier 4! My tier 4 ends in a couple of weeks & that's it for a lot of us unless our wonderful politicians give us a tier 5.

Ahhh, gotcha! I'm finished with Tier IV on April 6 but I won't have received 99 weeks, I missed out on EB. Thanks for the clue!

[GonzoFL]

Hoppy,

It don't matter....99er,79er......we are all in the same leaky tier4 boat. Being in this boat is like volunteering to be Captain of the Titanic....after it hit the ice berg

[nancym]

The irony of that label is that most people who actually managed to get 99 weeks of unemployment benefits (I'm one of them) got those weeks spread out over two to three years, with gaps of several months in between each law passage filled with either very sketchy temp employment or near starvation or eviction circumstances. And an even bigger irony is that a giant portion of the people in that same timeframe never even got the full 99 weeks because of

a) They didn't make enough in their work history timeline to be eligible for the full weekly amount and so also had fewer weeks of actual benefits--many get only about half that max weekly benefit, and about half the number of weeks,

b) Many people missed out on either part or all of EB, the state-federal benefit that gave those 20 weeks but ended in January, with only a minor extension til the end of February (to coincide with federal funding deadlines).

c) In other states, some never qualified for Tier 4 because of their state overall unemployment rate.

While it's kinda catchy, "99-ers" is really a gross misrepresentation of the reality for most of the unemployed.

[Jeff]

I need a Tier5, but I'm not signing that petition. It's rude and demanding. The unemployed aren't owed anything. The Tiers they've already granted to us are charity, paid for by people who are working. They don't owe us anything. Again, it's charity. And you can't deserve or be owed charity because by its nature it can only come from ones heart by choice. I'm ashamed of that petition. To sign it, you may as well walk up to a total stranger and demand his money. I prefer to remain worthy of my fellowmans charity, than demanding and thankless. I consider it a black mark on our good character.

[sc4ram]

Amen Jeff-

As a product of the last great recession in the 70s, at that time having a shot at multiple extensions (up to 99 weeks in some cases) was not even within the bounds of reality. I am amaized we have gotton this far on the tier road map.

Obviously many of the working folks out there havent drilled into the minutia of extensions and tiers and are not as informed as we are on the subject, but when they hear on the news about year long extensions and 99 weeks during a busy day (where in many cases they are performing the duties of their laid off former co-workers as well as their own) they naturally surmise (rightly or wrongly) that this is a bloated program burning their tax and deficit dollars. I dont think the average working person wants us to live in a tent and starve, but they may want us to consider moving in with our mother in law.

There is a tax revolt brewing out there over this and several other issues (inc government workers pay and pension liability)

I would still bet even money, that in a election year, with this leadership in control (and their willingness to pass pay-go one day, then declaire items as "emergency" by exception the next day) they will pass a tier V. It will take many months and this Health Care debacle will have to be cleared off the front pages one way or another.

Good Luck to all

[waybol]

I agree the petition could have been worded better. I do believe I deserve better after being in the workforce and paying tax to our government since I was 16. (over 30 years) I did not have anything to do with the economical mess our country is in, I was happy to go to work every week pay my bills at the end of the month and my tax all along the way.The government that took my tax money and was supposed to have my back failed.I have also paid into unemployment insurance for over 30 years you might think your employer pays for that but your rate of pay is based on his exspenses to put you to work. Therefore you get less per hour so your Employer can pay the unemployment insurance.You dont think they just eat that exspense do you? So while I maybe am not owed I do believe I deserve better. So I signed it even though it could have been worded better.I bet nancym could write a better one we would all be happy to sign if she is up to it.

[Jeff]

Amen Jeff-

As a product of the last great recession in the 70s, at that time having a shot at multiple extensions (up to 99 weeks in some cases) was not even within the bounds of reality. I am amaized we have gotton this far on the tier road map.

Obviously many of the working folks out there havent drilled into the minutia of extensions and tiers and are not as informed as we are on the subject, but when they hear on the news about year long extensions and 99 weeks during a busy day (where in many cases they are performing the duties of their laid off former co-workers as well as their own) they naturally surmise (rightly or wrongly) that this is a bloated program burning their tax and deficit dollars. I dont think the average working person wants us to live in a tent and starve, but they may want us to consider moving in with our mother in law.

There is a tax revolt brewing out there over this and several other issues (inc government workers pay and pension liability)

I would still bet even money, that in a election year, with this leadership in control (and their willingness to pass pay-go one day, then declaire items as "emergency" by exception the next day) they will pass a tier V. It will take many months and this Health Care debacle will have to be cleared off the front pages one way or another.

Good Luck to all

I hope a Tier5 comes sooner than later. I went to that pettition page and tried to register so as to make a comment about the nature of the petition and why I would'nt sign it. And when I clicked to Submit my registration info it thanked me for signing the petition! After that it's something like facebook...you get a wall to leave messages on and can leave messages on others walls. So then I had to go to my wall and leave a message saying I didnt intend to sign the petition and so forth. The petition publicizes your name and where you're from.

Went back today and the sign petition box was clearly displayed. I must have been tired last night when tried to register. Oh well.

[grandmom49]

I posted the link on facebook, twitter, myspace & the ellen community. If anyone knows how & is able to post an appeal on youtube.com, please do it. The petition says our goal is 500 signatures but to get the attention the petition deserves we need to surpass that number by 100X. This is the actual link to the petition. http://bit.ly/cZPdQm Forward it to everyone you know in every media you have access to.

[grandmom49]

I need to preface my reply with an apology to the administrators. I posted this reply in an incorrect thread prior to this. I tried to delete it but was not able to. So it is posted in the General EUC discussion thread. Anyway here it is:

I am sorry that anyone is insulted or ashamed of this petition. I am ashamed that this petition is necessary.
I have worked since 9 years old & have been paying federal income taxes since I was 16. I did not even take time off when I went to college but worked full time with reportable income while earning my degree. Unemployment benefits are not charity they are an insurance payment for which our employers pay additional taxes to protect us against circumstances such as this.
I wish to point out that our federal elected officials enjoy above average pension benefits at our expense and should NOT object to legislating needed protection for their constituents.

[SaraJ]

I need to preface my reply with an apology to the administrators. I posted this reply in an incorrect thread prior to this. I tried to delete it but was not able to. So it is posted in the General EUC discussion thread. Anyway here it is:

I am sorry that anyone is insulted or ashamed of this petition. I am ashamed that this petition is necessary.
I have worked since 9 years old & have been paying federal income taxes since I was 16. I did not even take time off when I went to college but worked full time with reportable income while earning my degree. Unemployment benefits are not charity they are an insurance payment for which our employers pay additional taxes to protect us against circumstances such as this.
I wish to point out that our federal elected officials enjoy above average pension benefits at our expense and should NOT object to legislating needed protection for their constituents.

I agree with you grandmom....I have worked all my life paying into the system. I have my Masters & am told time & time again that I'm "overqualified" for this job....I don't care I just want a job. The U.S. can jump & help all these other countires, but what about the United States citizens? The old farts in Washington are out of touch. Forward the petition to as many as you can!

[Jeff]

Our employers pay into a state unemployment fund. That's the first six months of unemployment we received. This we deserve and are owed. After that, the Tiers are federal. And that is charity. That's why it's designated as emergency spending by the Senate. Saying that we deserve these charitable Federal emergency Tiers is nothing other than rationalizing for the sake of our false pride and desperation. And were it a debt owed to us. there would be no need for Bills and amendments and such. It would be law were it a debt owed to us. It is not. While we are not responsible for losing our jobs, we are responsible for taking care of ourselves. The fact that we can't is not evidence of anothers culpability or responsibility, but that of our own inability to do so. We may justly plead our worthiness by a lifetime of labor and civility. But in no sense is justice our ally in demanding others carry us in our time of need. It is adversarial to demand a handout. And to say that our Reps are responsible for our lost jobs, is to at the same time acknowledgeor accredit their hand in our ever having had a job in the first place. Consequently they may, without charity, justly send us on our way emptihanded, with the charge to be thankfull that they ever gave us a job in the first place. The notion that the unemployed are owed these Tiers is foolish, adversarial and counter productive in that it presents us as presumptuous savages which we are not.

[sc4ram]

Hello Grandmom-

IMO I think a objective reader would have to admit that this petition is pretty "snarky" (at best). Its tone is sanctimonious and accusing (even though its directed at Congressman) considering its objective (hopefully) is to get our issue on the radar of our elected representatives (and keep it there). If I go to ask someone for help I try not to demean or yell demands at them (because the result would usually be negative). The tone of this thing makes it sound like it orginated from some workers party fringe group . (it reads like Sen Bunning's alter ego) I have issues with NELP, but if you observe their written communications on this subject and their interface with Congress its usually in a professional tone, if we are petitoning our representatives we should emulate NELP in that regard.

These people in Congress are cold political calculators , they read and act on the polling in their districts of likely voters, not charged language in petitions. If I was working in some Congressman's office and I saw this thing, I wouldnt take it seriously.

Ive learned from the Health Care debate that most of our representatives dont take input from emails or other cyber inputs, (no way to tell where they orginated=unknown impact from their home district) . If I wanted to get my opinion to my Congressiman, I would write a hard copy letter and put it in the USPS mail (with my return addy that shows I am in their District) . I still believe that those get read.

In addition to a humanitarian argument for Tier V, the other arguement is economic, most of the unemployment checks go directly into the economy once issued. IMO that should be the (polite and professional ) justification on any petition. (and there is still enough money sloshing around from the stimulus package that is already available for this, that would be a good thing to mention in any petition)

[Unemployed In Orlando]

I agree with your last post sc4ram. Bottom line, if you guys want to sign it, then sign it. If you dont, then dont. Lets move on past this petition subject..

[SaraJ]

I agree with your last post sc4ram. Bottom line, if you guys want to sign it, then sign it. If you dont, then dont. Lets move on past this petition subject..

I do agree that it's not the best written document; however, at least the author took the initiative to write it & is trying to do something. There is a certain amount of anger in it, but hey...if you don't like it, write your own. And I agree with you UIO....either sign it or don't! Move forward

[nancym]

I strongly object to the characterization of unemployment benefits as charity. But then they are also not a debt that is "owed" to us either. UI benefits are by definition in surance payments. Whether the premiums for that insurance are paid by our employers or by the employees (in a number of states employees pay into the UI fund) is a bit irrelevant, since any employer expense, even health care, detracts from that employer's ability to raise wages. And, btw, federal payments come from a fund that is paid into by a federal tax on employers also; that's what that whole debate was about last fall, not the Florida UI tax, but the continuation of a very small federal added tax for that purpose. UI benefits are no more a charity payment than a reimbursement check you get from your car insurance company when you have an accident. And right now we seem to be in one whopping big Economic Accident!

It's not charity, but also not "owed" in the sense that any of us ever expected to be getting up to 99 weeks of benefits ever in our lives, as if it were like the promise of Social Security.

No one should feel the need to put these terms in some kind of "moral fiber" sentence structures. Whether you feel that government should take care of people who have fallen on hard times depends on what your personal view of the role of government is, and that seems to be a very polarized set of views lately in this country. And it also depends on to what degree you feel responsible for your own lack of work. If you really aren't trying to find work, then yes, benefits are of course a charity, or worse, a fraud. But I don't think that applies to many, if anyone, here.

With all the greed and fraud and corruption and bad decisions made in the last decade or so, including some made by the American public, there is plenty of responsibility to go around for what is happening. But what is happening to individuals out of work is for the most part the luck of the draw, and no moral superiority or deserving state should be attributed to those who remain employed vs. those who aren't.

Is it charity to keep those in state offices and police forces and schools employed by using funds to support those state activities while cutting back on unemployment benefits? That would have to follow logically if you insist on using the word charity for the same kind of government payments and stimulus that have been paid out so far.

I suggest everyone try to look at the bigger picture. Setting aside individual circumstances for a moment, what will be the effect on the entire economy and all those employed in society who are not getting "charity," if you insist on calling it that, when gigantic chunks of our population --400,000 per month--start to fall off the financial truck in the next few months, creating havoc in social services, crime, health care, lowered retail sales, foreclosures, and god knows what else. Goldman Sachs, the source of those numbers, doesn't give a hoot about charitable funding, but they do care about the general economy and how it affects Wall Street.

I am personally not counting on any kind of Tier V for myself; I've taken steps to go back to school and ride this out, if that's even remotely possible. But not everyone is able to do that, and I'll still campaign in whatever way I can for others to get more weeks of benefits, not just because it's a "charitable" thing to do, but because it's a smart government thing to do.

So please leave the Ayn Rand-tinged philosophies back in high school where they belong (she was an evil idiot who had WAY too much influence!) This is not about me, me, me, but neither is it about notions of pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps when those boots have been taken out from under us by forces largely beyond our reach.

[nancym]

Having said all that, I agree that petition was really not effectively written, and frankly most petitions that aren't really set up to do much good unless they are marketed for millions and have a supporting organizational structure that can promote it in a big public presentation once the signatures are added. As sc4ram says, a well-worded letter, brief email, or phone call to your individual Congressmen will probably get more serious consideration than almost any online petition.

I confess I did sign it, reluctantly, in a flippant mood at the time, but checked the box to hide my personal info from the list!

On the other hand, change.org does have ongoing efforts to get online feedback, and those issues that get the most attention DO bubble up to the top and Obama has been known to directly answer to those issues in public forums. But often posters are constantly competing with legions of avid promoters of marijuana legalization and stuff like that, which makes the postings from less organized efforts get watered down.

[GonzoFL]

I also signed the petition. The petition could have been written better and I don't have allot of faith in on line petitions...but what the hell.

The catastrophe that congress cannot ignore is this fact. With the estimate of 400,000 people loosing benefits a month,that equates to REAL money real fast. At an average benefit rate of $300 a week,in 1 months that will be equal to appx. $120 million Yankee Greenbacks dollars in lost revenue.If you really want a shocker,figure what that would equate to in 12 months. How can small business survive,let alone hire any new employees when facing loses of that magnitude? No one is owed these extension, but they are NOT charity. The extensions make good economic sense. The return on the governments investment nearly doubles according to some economists.

We are about half way through March. Many of us have already exhausted our last tier,with many more of us to follow. Enough jobs cannot possible be created to head off this tragedy. We are going to be in for a long,dark ride. All we can do right now is tighten up and keep writing and calling. Maybe a economic disaster of this magnitude is what is needed to open congress's eyes.

On a lighter piss and moan rant.....I still think a pitchfork and torch business could generate a substantial return to investors(Gonzo's stock tip of the day.....go long,sharp and hot on pitchforks and torches)

[Jeff]

Hello Grandmom-

IMO I think a objective reader would have to admit that this petition is pretty "snarky" (at best). Its tone is sanctimonious and accusing (even though its directed at Congressman) considering its objective (hopefully) is to get our issue on the radar of our elected representatives (and keep it there). If I go to ask someone for help I try not to demean or yell demands at them (because the result would usually be negative). The tone of this thing makes it sound like it orginated from some workers party fringe group . (it reads like Sen Bunning's alter ego) I have issues with NELP, but if you observe their written communications on this subject and their interface with Congress its usually in a professional tone, if we are petitoning our representatives we should emulate NELP in that regard.

These people in Congress are cold political calculators , they read and act on the polling in their districts of likely voters, not charged language in petitions. If I was working in some Congressman's office and I saw this thing, I wouldnt take it seriously.

Ive learned from the Health Care debate that most of our representatives dont take input from emails or other cyber inputs, (no way to tell where they orginated=unknown impact from their home district) . If I wanted to get my opinion to my Congressiman, I would write a hard copy letter and put it in the USPS mail (with my return addy that shows I am in their District) . I still believe that those get read.

In addition to a humanitarian argument for Tier V, the other arguement is economic, most of the unemployment checks go directly into the economy once issued. IMO that should be the (polite and professional ) justification on any petition. (and there is still enough money sloshing around from the stimulus package that is already available for this, that would be a good thing to mention in any petition)

You're one of the Peacemakers sc4ram. Nice post.

[Unemployed In Orlando]

I still think a pitchfork and torch business could generate a substantial return to investors(Gonzo's stock tip of the day)

Im in!! Now if it only didnt cost 9.99 for a trade on E-trade...

[SaraJ]

Phone Campaign to Begin on Monday 3/15… PLEASE JOIN US!!!

MONDAY
Senator Harry Reid: Phone= (202) 224-3542
Senator Jean Shaheen: Phone= (202) 224-2841

TUESDAY
Senator Richard Durbin: Phone= (202) 224-2152
Senator Max Baucus: Phone= (202) 224-2651

WEDNESDAY
Senator Debbie Stabenow: Phone= (202) 224-4822
Senator Sherrod Brown: Phone= (202) 224-2315

THURSDAY
Senator Robert Casey: Phone= (202) 224-6324
Senator Chris Dodd: Phone= (202) 224-2823

FRIDAY
Senator Al Franken: Phone= (202) 224-5641
Senator Arlen Specter: Phone= (202) 224-4254

[grandmom49]

I'm really glad I got a few responses to my reply. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have written letters, called, emailed, tweeted and entered comments on my elected officials fb pages saying in effect, "pretty please, don't throw us to the wolves". I have not gotten 1 response that was not a canned "thank you for contacting my office, we are hard at work doing what we think best". I have learned over a long and exhausting life that the squeaky wheel really does get the grease.(If you want documentation of this, email me at grandmom49@hotmail.com) If you have enough assets to survive without benefits until you are reemployed more power to you. Please do not denigrate those of us who are not in your position. The wording of the petition is really of less importance than how many constituents believe the issue warrants attention. I stand by my actions and my call to take action bringing the petition to the attention of as many of your friends, relatives, business contacts, social media contacts, etc. as you can urging them to add their signatures.

[daytonaman]

I have read in several news clip's that the e-mail and standard US mail can take weeks for congress to get the messages, The quickest way, phone calls & fax, the fax method gets your message right on the desk of the lawmakers, or at least someone in that particular office.

As for Job creation, the Federal Government should take lessons from this article I read from my Home State:

http://www.milforddailynews.com/opinion/x1669539788/Patrick-The-quest-for-jobs-MetroWest-and-statewide

I just got off the phone with Frank at AWI, I was told that I used all weeks of EB, it was supposed to be 20 weeks, but the way that the calculations are done I guess I only qualified for 14 weeks. I don't know what I'm going to do, unemployment is still on the rise in Florida.

I was also told that the AWI office is aware of the possible tier V only through the info they hear from us and the media, we seriously need to open the flood gates to congress with requests for the additional tiers

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